WRP Product Review

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BlackTigerSE

New Member
If you had bought a IMS from GB 3....what would you do lol. I'm still trying to figure out a way to get my money back. Maybe call up my bank? Sell it on ebay/craigslist :smt019
 

BRUTAL

New Member
I think you should wait till I finish testing a gb 3 ims and orings before you jump on the ims for sale train. I still stand by my results on the dyno and the product, and for whatever reason the gb3 problems will be figured out and we can all die in peace afterwards. I waiting to get Toys ims and orings, or someones if hes not up for it just yet. Iam going to need it at least a few weeks of testing and changes.
 

BlackTigerSE

New Member
:smt046
I've been banned by the money making forum (frontierboard). You, know...the board that makes money for every member that signs up to his "very expensive to run" forum...The only reason i can think of for being banned 7 days is for supporting a threatening member...(sandie). I guess they are against that also? amazing. What a bunch of losers! Can't believe their that low. They have no business of running a forum. I guess you might be right sandie. If will does not take care of the ims....I WILL CAUSE DAMAGE. Sandie, you mentioned FTC? What is that? I am also thinking about going to the bank, so i can get my money back through paypal. I used my credit card to buy his junk.


But anywho...i tried to stay out of the battle and even tried to control the bashing that was going on between other members....maybe they banned me because they didnt like that i was acting like a moderator? Bunch of croc...Been nothin but supportive to the people who are upset and i can relate because i have a GB 3 IMS. Or maybe somebody found that i started this thread on frontyspot? Maybe that is why i was banned.

And they asked me to sign up to be a member. FK off with your spam!
If im still pist off at them in 7 days...just going to make threatening comments and curse at everyone. I only like a couple of people there....the rest are uptight WRP supporters who have not run into any big problems with Will yet....


IT's also funny how WRP mentioned a turbo that would be cheaper than the supercharger....costs over 5 grand?


And sandie, you are right about everything...including how their forum got started...it was immature and unecessary. I don't even know why they whined and bashed and complained on the new owners....the page looks almost the same to me and i have not yet got any spam from them encouraging me to become a member...

For flaming, you have had warnings
JESUS CHRIST!!! HAVE MERCY ON THOSE WRP WORSHIPING SOULS....FOR FLAMING? FALSE!!! WARNINGS???? NOT A SINGLE ONE! L I A R S
 

BlackTigerSE

New Member
BRUTAL said:
I think you should wait till I finish testing a gb 3 ims and orings before you jump on the ims for sale train. I still stand by my results on the dyno and the product, and for whatever reason the gb3 problems will be figured out and we can all die in peace afterwards. I waiting to get Toys ims and orings, or someones if hes not up for it just yet. Iam going to need it at least a few weeks of testing and changes.
I understand and thats why i have been patient and understanding. I have even said i would give this a month in multiple posts. My problem is with the board now...not the IMS. They are abusing their powers and banning anybody they disagree with or who can BECOME a threat...notice i said become...not IS...i was no threat...i only supported people like sandie...because hkys and frenzy supported Will and everybody else...Why can't there be two sides?

I can't even keep count on how many members they have banned. I'm guessing atleast one member per week? They have only been up for 3 months. It's a joke.......blaze got banned for resposting an existing thread? who has not done that?? And they claim he started the bashing against members..WRONG...i was reviewing the thread ever since he started it. He had is own opinions against WRP and the members disagreed and started to insult him. Maybe it was because he was defending himself? eh?
 

BRUTAL

New Member
^^^^ you know I realise you and others may be upset and I would not have handled situation the same. However youre being very general in the above and from my view, seems to atack me as well. Iam a mod there, but I also have been unbiased on feeling of products and did the first independant ims dyno, and found good gains from it. cannot say the same for Airaid TBS or othe products on the markey over the years. So please remember that at least I am working independantly on a reason for oring failure. This doesnt make me any money, time etc, if anything it cost me money to do the work, be on forums(too much instead of fixing Jags), but I value my reputation as someone that tries to only speak of what I know, have experience in etc, and if I make a mistake Ill tell you. I have 3 teenage kids and try to lead by example....so that being said I worship Jesus, not WRP
 

BlackTigerSE

New Member
BRUTAL said:
^^^^ you know I realise you and others may be upset and I would not have handled situation the same. However youre being very general in the above and from my view, seems to atack me as well. Iam a mod there, but I also have been unbiased on feeling of products and did the first independant ims dyno, and found good gains from it. cannot say the same for Airaid TBS or othe products on the markey over the years. So please remember that at least I am working independantly on a reason for oring failure. This doesnt make me any money, time etc, if anything it cost me money to do the work, be on forums(too much instead of fixing Jags), but I value my reputation as someone that tries to only speak of what I know, have experience in etc, and if I make a mistake Ill tell you. I have 3 teenage kids and try to lead by example....so that being said I worship Jesus, not WRP

Ok, mabe i was a bit to general. I didn't realize you were a moderator also. Which makes sense, the members over there have nothing against you. Atleast their is 1 or 2 moderators that i can count on in frontierboard...but the site will never be what it claims to be...the best frontier forum ever...

On behalf of everybody else in GB 3, we do appreciate what you are doing for us. I hope you do get this figured out, because you are probably the only person we can count on. I also bought the IMS because of your dyno result.
 

BRUTAL

New Member
BlackTigerSE said:
Brutal, have you tried asking the other 6-7 people who have experienced gasket failure? What if toynis has a good ims.
That's an option, but if its a machining failure then the whole production run is proboly at fault. if its orings that the manufacturer for Nissan screwed up(we get this ocassionally at Jaguar with bushings, and Imt (Intake manifold tuning valves) the parts Iam thinking of ,3 generations of sway bar bushings before the manufacturer got it right, and diferent sized and composition on the imt orings to get those right) oh and I forgot about over 60 upper shoch bushings that we got 1 time that crumbled in you hand if you squeezed them. So manufacturer could be to blame for this even so. If it orings though and toys are part of bad batch it while show when I install them in my gb1 ims. But that why I want a gb3 ims so I can mic the grooves compaired to mine. But I am really getting screwed at work right now on hours with the economy and people holding their money alittle tighter which hase been costing me about 30-40 hrs less a week. kinda like working 4 weeks and getting paid for 2. I have plenty of work but its all hard diag crap that you dont make good money on and takes alot of time, sucks when youre 1 of only 3 masters out of 15 techs, the advisors dont want to give the hard to stuff to people that have shown they cant figure it out :smt017
So this is at least a break from the crap I have to figure out at work
 

iggs

New Member
If it means anything to anybody, I'm an aircraft engine mechanic and I deal with o-rings, gaskets, packings...whatever all the time. I saw the pictures of the sharp edge on the IMS gasket channels. This is my conclusion, just by viewing the pics posted over at frontierboard.

I personally think it was due to lack of a chamfer on the gasket channels. If there was an overtorque situation, chamfers could forgive minimal deformation (or even a little squeeze-out) of the o-ring.
BUT--If there was ANY squeeze-out with a sharp edge, that gasket has NO chance of surviving.

Point being, there should be NO squeeze-out because the channel depths should be machined to contain its share of the gaskets and the mating surfaces of the IMS and intake plenum should be as close to flush as possible (taking into consideration machining variations on each respective part). The channel depths should also have a chamfer because in order to seal the mating surfaces, the gasket/o-ring needs to be compressed (a little) which deforms the o-ring (a little) and with a sharp edge sitting next to soft o-ring...it's disaster waiting to happen.

To reiterate, no squeeze-out should be possible in the first place because they should be sitting in their little channels properly. The minimal deformation of the o-rings should have been taken into account with chamfered edges.
Even if the o-rings were sitting in their channels properly, any little bit of deformation of that o-ring will cause it to be cut if it encounters that sharp edge AT ALL.

If there was any squeeze-out for any reason, the proper torque of 5ft lbs is enough to shear the gaskets when you're talking about soft gasket material squeezed between metal if they're not sitting correctly in their channels.
I don't think overtorque is an issue, because IMO proper torque is enough to destroy that gasket if not properly seated.

I think it's a design issue and the gaskets and installers have minimal blame. It may even be that specific batch of IMSs not getting machined to the specs the other GBs were.

edit: even widening channel width could've alleviated this problem. The deformation of the o-ring could be contained in a slightly wider channel rather than a chamfer. From what I've read, the gaskets/o-rings sit very tight in the channel. They've got nowhere to go when they get squeezed.
 

BlackTigerSE

New Member
iggs said:
If it means anything to anybody, I'm an aircraft engine mechanic and I deal with o-rings, gaskets, packings...whatever all the time. I saw the pictures of the sharp edge on the IMS gasket channels. This is my conclusion, just by viewing the pics posted over at frontierboard.

I personally think it was due to lack of a chamfer on the gasket channels. If there was an overtorque situation, chamfers could forgive minimal deformation (or even a little squeeze-out) of the o-ring.
BUT--If there was ANY squeeze-out with a sharp edge, that gasket has NO chance of surviving.

Point being, there should be NO squeeze-out because the channel depths should be machined to contain its share of the gaskets and the mating surfaces of the IMS and intake plenum should be as close to flush as possible (taking into consideration machining variations on each respective part). The channel depths should also have a chamfer because in order to seal the mating surfaces, the gasket/o-ring needs to be compressed (a little) which deforms the o-ring (a little) and with a sharp edge sitting next to soft o-ring...it's disaster waiting to happen.

To reiterate, no squeeze-out should be possible in the first place because they should be sitting in their little channels properly. The minimal deformation of the o-rings should have been taken into account with chamfered edges.
Even if the o-rings were sitting in their channels properly, any little bit of deformation of that o-ring will cause it to be cut if it encounters that sharp edge AT ALL.

If there was any squeeze-out for any reason, the proper torque of 5ft lbs is enough to shear the gaskets when you're talking about soft gasket material squeezed between metal if they're not sitting correctly in their channels.
I don't think overtorque is an issue, because IMO proper torque is enough to destroy that gasket if not properly seated.

I think it's a design issue and the gaskets and installers have minimal blame. It may even be that specific batch of IMSs not getting machined to the specs the other GBs were.

edit: even widening channel width could've alleviated this problem. The deformation of the o-ring could be contained in a slightly wider channel rather than a chamfer. From what I've read, the gaskets/o-rings sit very tight in the channel. They've got nowhere to go when they get squeezed.
I like the way you think Iggs. I have a feeling were getting closer to solving the GB 3 Ims problem. I also agree that it has something to do with the IMS.
 

BRUTAL

New Member
^^^yes IGGS and I agree with that as well which is why I want a gb3 ims to check. When I train new techs I have to remind them that a bolt the holds a components together that seals with an oring only has to hold it .the tighter you clamp it doesnt seal it any better.it only increases your chances of streaching the bolt and snapping it or pulling the threads. And moderate overtorquing from past and present experience only lends to flattening or crushing the oring making unuseable after it heat cycles and retains that shape. The metal or plastic parts themselves are designed to mate to each other and the orings provide the air,water, oil, or fuel seal thats needed depending on the application.
And I too worked on fighter aircraft(F-16)fuel system and enigines in the air force when they first came out in the late 70's and there is nothing bar aerospace that is more heavily watched or inspected than aircraft. Make a mistake on a car and usually results in a tow. Do it on an aircraft, or shuttle and its much more disasterous. Wasnt it orings that Morton Thiokol had a problem with on the shuttle engines.....such inexpensive parts....can cost so much
 

MOBEEBO

New Member
BRUTAL said:
I think you should wait till I finish testing a gb 3 ims and orings before you jump on the ims for sale train. I still stand by my results on the dyno and the product, and for whatever reason the gb3 problems will be figured out and we can all die in peace afterwards. I waiting to get Toys ims and orings, or someones if hes not up for it just yet. Iam going to need it at least a few weeks of testing and changes.
Good advice. Why are you complaining so much if you haven't even installed it or experienced a problem? :smt017 Relax. It will get figured out.

Brutal, I can provide my IMS if you like. :smt006
 

BlackTigerSE

New Member
MOBEEBO said:
BRUTAL said:
I think you should wait till I finish testing a gb 3 ims and orings before you jump on the ims for sale train. I still stand by my results on the dyno and the product, and for whatever reason the gb3 problems will be figured out and we can all die in peace afterwards. I waiting to get Toys ims and orings, or someones if hes not up for it just yet. Iam going to need it at least a few weeks of testing and changes.
Good advice. Why are you complaining so much if you haven't even installed it or experienced a problem? :smt017 Relax. It will get figured out.

Brutal, I can provide my IMS if you like. :smt006
Do provide!

And I am not complaining about the IMS. I was complaining about my unnececessary Ban over at FuBu boards. Their reason for banning me is a lie.
 

MOBEEBO

New Member
BlackTigerSE said:
And I am not complaining about the IMS. I was complaining about my unnececessary Ban over at FuBu boards. Their reason for banning me is a lie.
That is kinda lame, yeah. This is getting waaaaaay outa hand. I hope everyone would just chill and wait for testing to be complete. Now, having said that, if it turns out that the problem is with manufacture, then he should replace them or provide a refund. That is the only thing to do if he want to stay in business. :smt045
 

Sandiegan05fronty

New Member
The sad part is Brutal is the one trying to find a solution and he isn't the manufacture of the product. He is the only one that I have seen asking for one of the bad spacers. Thanks Brutal! :smt023
 
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