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Religion
#26
(07-03-2009, 04:54 PM)reverendbiker Wrote:  Okay, I'm generally sorry when I enter these discussions...

Amen to that Reverend. These discussions usually lead down a bad path at some point. I admit I was hesitant to comment at first. Partially because these discussions can become quite heated if people aren't careful, and partially because even though I know what I believe and how I feel, I often find it hard to put into words on a forum that can truly convey my beliefs. That being said, I have to praise everyone here for handling this very maturely so far. Please continue to do so.
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#27
Wow, what more can I say. BlackTigerSE, you have received a lot of very good information on this thread and I am glad that you have an open heart to discuss this. This will be the single most important decision that you ever make in your life. I strongly suggest that you spend a little time listening to Reverendbiker's Bible study. Here is the website:

http://www.peoplesharingjesus.com/sermon.php

Go to the bottom of the page and click on Bible class. He is teaching Revelations right now and the way things are going in our country it is good to be able to see what is to come.

I am nearly 72 years of age and Reverendbiker does the best Bible study of anyone that I have ever listened to and that includes the many I have listened to on the radio and watched on tv. He does a BUNCH of background work for each lesson.

You asked if He has read Urantia and I would guess that he has. I read "The Shack" and ask him about it and he had read it as well. He is the person I go to whenever I have a question or problem. You could not ask for better Spiritual guidance than he can give you.

Please take the time to listen to his lessons for a time and I do not think you will have any trouble making the right decision. If you do listen be sure to ask for his email letters as it will give you an outline for the study and he also includes some helpful attachments from time to time.

You mentioned obeying the Ten Commandments and you need to know, that alone will not get you to Heaven. We are told in Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You cannot work your way into Heaven. His death on the cross paid for our sins and only if you go through Him can you make the journey.

OkieScot
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#28
On the subject of baptism, my understanding is that is is symbolic, as was stated. It is a public way of showing that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
While it may be a spiritual and literal cleansing, I understood it to be symbolic of rebirth.

I was born into a Methodist household and christened Methodist. I followed that off and on throughout my life. As a teenager, I received salvation while listening to a radio broadcast, but did not know what to do next. The churches were all so dry, boring, and intimidating. I loved Jesus and trusted God, but didn't "fit" in church.
A little over a year ago, my wife was invited to a more modern church where they sing contemporary worship songs and many wear t-shirts. I went with her and felt welcome there. I soon learned the basic truths that brought it all together for me......finally.
I was baptised about two months later and have never looked back. My faith has been growing ever since. My goal right now is to learn more about the scripture so that I can share with others (properly).

Thanks Reverend Biker for jumping in with some facts.
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#29
(07-03-2009, 05:09 PM)BlackTigerSE Wrote:  I'm going to have to read both books. Reverend, have you read the Urantia Book? Or just studied about it? Thanks for giving us your input.
The Bible--I've read every word of it--many timesBig Grin
The Urantia Book--Read portions of it and studied it in seminary. Funny--for the first few decades after the book was written few people really took it seriously; it was though to be more of the nuttiness coming from Adventists such as John Harvey Kellogg. It seems to have gained new life in the past few years along with the growth of "cafeteria" spiritual plans, where individuals pick beliefs from different faiths and combine them into a belief system that suits their own ideas. How else (other than Oprah's endorsement) can you explain the current popularity of bizarre (and heretical) ideas like those of Eckhart Tolle?
The Bible has withstood the test of time and has proven to be reliable; the Urantia papers have floated with the whims of popular culture. Which would YOU believe?
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#30
At work, i brought up the Urantia book in a conversation. Today i found out one of my co-workers is a Christian Pentecost, which is funny, because i asked one of my clients i take care of, what religious group he's part of, and he said the exact same thing. At the time, i have never heard of this religious group, until my co-worker told me about it. Her religious group prays/worships directly to Jesus. This is fine, but i believe in the 3 in 1 idea. The holy spirit, jesus, and god. The conversation deepened into other religions, and i can now tell you, for sure, i will not be interested in joining the mormons or jehovas witnesses. Catholicism is still on the edge for me. She brought up a good point about Catholicism, how they pray/worship? the dead/saints....which i agree, why are you praying/worshiping the dead/saints. Do catholics have to pray through mary to get to jesus. If so, why? I understand she was chosen to give birth to jesus, but she isn't a god, she was just a big part of his life.


I will defiantly look into reverends on-line bible study sessions. I am planning on buying an international version of the bible tomorrow. I will be reading both the Urantia book and the Bible. I'd like to believe in both, but i will keep in mind that the bible has withstood the test of time and has proven to be reliable. I have to admit, i have questioned the Urantia book origins, and it really brothers me on why they haven't released the name of the sleeping subject and a few other things that happened...the history of it does not make me feel comfortable. Maybe i will find my answers in the book.

And from what i've read, the Adventist or Kellogs had nothing to do with the Urantia Papers. Yes, Sadler was an Adventist until his church kicked him out. He moved from California to Illinois, where the book was developed and that was the end of it, although he might have stayed in contact (as a friend) with Kellog, but i think they stopped being friends soon after the Urantia papers were developing.
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#31
Thanks for the input Rev! And feel free to correct me if I misspeak. My knowledge is small, but I do have a strong faith in what matters.
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#32
Hey, BT--
I applaud your curiosity and encourage you to keep seeking. From your posts here I can see that your instincts are good, and it it obvious that the Holy Spirit is moving in your life. I would encourage you to continue your exploration of the Bible. In addition, I would encourage you to examine the works of a couple of former atheists who have examined the evidence and are now Christians. Lee Strobel is an attorney/journalist who authored an excellent series of books: The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for the Creator, and others. Here is his story:
Lee Strobel's Testimony (2 minutes)
Want to see what Strobel says about the reliability of the Bible?
Is the Bible Reliable?

I became a Christian at age 30 after examining the work of Josh McDowell; you might want to check out some of his work such as Evidence that Demands a Verdict and More Than a Carpenter. Ravi Zacharias is also a personal favorite of mine...

Please don't get too hung up in denominational differences at this time; I happen to me a Southern Baptist Pastor, but I'd much rather see you be a believer that a Baptist. We can discuss those differences later...
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#33
Could that "sleeping subject" have been Edgar Cayce? (Clicky)
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#34
(07-04-2009, 07:43 AM)reverendbiker Wrote:  Please don't get too hung up in denominational differences at this time; I happen to me a Southern Baptist Pastor, but I'd much rather see you be a believer that a Baptist. We can discuss those differences later...

X2, The arguments over denominational differences are not important to salvation.

Thanks for that input RB.
06 nismo CC 4X4: SOLD and replaced with 2017 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon; Teraflex 3" lift, 315/70-17 Cooper STT PRO tires on Fuel Trophy wheels, JCR bumpers front and rear w/Warn 9.5cti winch in front, Ace sliders, GraBars, Weathertech window deflectors and floor liners
98 Jeep Wrangler in the garage, 2" lift, 33X12.50 BFG MTs on 15X8 MT Classic Locks, Pioneer/MTX/RF P3 Sound, Borla Header w/Flowmaster
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#35
Black TigerSE,

Thanks for this thread. It has been very enlightening and has made me do a lot of thinking.. It is also one of the most active threads in some time. I am glad that you are going to look into reverendbiker's Bible class. You will learn a lot from him and as you can tell from his remarks in this thread he has a lot of knowledge and he is not into running down another person's religion unless it is contrary to the Word of God.

He has a lot of knowledge from the business world and he brings this into some of his lessons as examples. It is quite enlightening and sometimes quite humorous as well.

With an open heart and open mind you will be able to find your way in seeking the Lord without any trouble. Best of luck and I have added you to my prayer list.

OkieScot
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#36
(07-04-2009, 02:33 PM)Reserector Wrote:  Could that "sleeping subject" have been Edgar Cayce? (Clicky)

No. Defiantly not.
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#37
Listened to Reverendbiker's bible class, it was pretty interesting. I always wondered about the 144,000. I liked how you tie amusing anecdotes into your service. I can see why okiescot likes listening to you.

Tried going to church with my client today. He seemed anxious on friday and saturday, but when sunday morning rolled around, he wanted to go back to sleep after breakfast. Wasn't surprised, and he's asking to go next sunday, but don't see that happening either. Would be a nice experience to see sit in a Pentecost service.
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#38
(07-06-2009, 12:21 AM)BlackTigerSE Wrote:  Listened to Reverendbiker's bible class,
Must have been a slow day Wink
Feel free to drop in any time. I have a motorcycle club in Tasmania that listens on a regular basis; boy, do they ask some interesting questions via email...
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#39
If there are others on here who have not listened to Reverendbiker's Bible class you really ought to give it a try. You will get to know him better, you will laugh some and you will come away with a wealth of new information. I have been a believer for most of my life and I have to tell you that he teaches me more than anyone else has and he also makes me stop and look at my life.

I might add that he steps on my toes from time to time to get my attention. It is usually about the music in church today. I love the old hymns and have a problem with the contemporary music especially the prayer choruses. Now I feel guilty because of this. I am trying to overcome this failing in my character but you might say that I am addicted to the old hymns.

OkieScot
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#40
Okie, I too miss the old hymns.

A few of my favorites
Because He Lives (probably my favorite)
Amazing Grace
When The Role is Called Up Yonder
How Great Thou Art
Victory in Jesus
06 nismo CC 4X4: SOLD and replaced with 2017 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon; Teraflex 3" lift, 315/70-17 Cooper STT PRO tires on Fuel Trophy wheels, JCR bumpers front and rear w/Warn 9.5cti winch in front, Ace sliders, GraBars, Weathertech window deflectors and floor liners
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#41
That is an interesting topic, Okie. I am on the other side of the fence. Dealing with hymnals and hymns that make little or no sense to me are one of the things that drove me away from church. Contemporary worsip songs and videos are a big part of what brought me back. The song "I Can Only Imagine" helped me reconnect with Jesus.

At my present church, they are slow to evolve to the newer songs, even though every time they play them, the congregation sings loud enough to blow the roof off.
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#42
(07-06-2009, 11:08 PM)Reserector Wrote:  That is an interesting topic, Okie. I am on the other side of the fence. Dealing with hymnals and hymns that make little or no sense to me are one of the things that drove me away from church. Contemporary worsip songs and videos are a big part of what brought me back. The song "I Can Only Imagine" helped me reconnect with Jesus.

At my present church, they are slow to evolve to the newer songs, even though every time they play them, the congregation sings loud enough to blow the roof off.
Gotta tell you, Reserector, you really pushed some buttons with me here. I didn't become a Christian until I was 30; my exposure to the old hymns was limited. The first song that ever made me think about Jesus was "Jesus is Just Alright" by the Doobie Brothers--now THAT's some deep theological lyrics Wink
I have come to love and appreciate the old hymns, but the lyrics to some of the newer songs are moving also. I've gotta say that the "I Can Only Imagine" brings tears of joy to me every single time I hear it. Last Fall our choir performed a new song called "My Prayer;" the words described my own life so perfectly that I couldn't even sing it for the tears:

"I have come from so far away, down the road of my own mistakes in the hope you could hear me pray. Oh, Lord, keep me in your reach. How I’ve longed through these wasted years to outrun all the pain and fear; turned to stone from my uncried tears; and now it’s your grace I seek. Love won’t compromise. It’s a gift, it’s a sacrifice. My soul renewed and my heart released, in you I’ll find my peace. Oh, wondrous child of whom the angels sing, know my joy, feel my suffering. Shining star, make this love you bring so bright that I may believe. Then my way will not be lost from now on ‘til that river’s crossed. My soul renewed and my spirit free, in you I’ll find my peace."
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#43
I will have to search that on YouTube tonight.
I keep running into songs like "Jesus Bring The Rain" and "Empty Me". Powerful stuff.

Some of the newer songs reference the older hymns, but are easier on the ears, in that they make more sense. I enjoy singing "How Great Thout Art" and "Come Thou Fount" when they play video versions of them. More uptempo than the traditional versions.
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#44
It is not so much the words of the contemporary songs that bother me, it is the melody, or lack there of. I Can Only Imagine is not bad, it does have a nice melody to it.

Some of my favorites:

The Love of God, There is a Name I Love to Hear, My Jesus I love Thee, The Eastern Gate,, The Unclouded Day, Oh How I Love Jesus, Wonderful Words of Life, Does Jesus Care?, Whispering Hope, Love Lifted Me, Constantly Abiding, Jesus Loves Me, He Lives, Christ Arose, Away in a Manger, In My Heart There Rings a Melody, My Savior's Love, There Shall Be Showers of Blessings, It Is Well With My Soul and the list is endless.

The most difficult task I have in life is to narrow the choices down to be played at my funeral.

OkieScot

Some of the newer songs reference the older hymns, but are easier on the ears, in that they make more sense. I enjoy singing "How Great Thout Art" and "Come Thou Fount" when they play video versions of them. More up tempo than the traditional versions.

And this is what bothers me most. When they finally do play an old hymn in church now it is usually jazzed up. It reminds me of listening to the National Anthem the way some of these rockers or what ever you call them sing it. I have no problem with the contemporary music in a service, just give us old codgers equal time.
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#45
(07-07-2009, 02:52 PM)OkieScot Wrote:  just give us old codgers equal time.

I love old codgers Big Grin. During my years in the seminary I served as Pastor at the Bluebonnet Place Retirement Home. Every week I held a small (20-25 people) worship service and I let them pick the music. Every week for three years we sang "It is Well With My Soul" and "In the Garden." I love old codgers Big Grin.
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#46
(07-06-2009, 11:03 PM)mdawg4x4 Wrote:  Okie, I too miss the old hymns.

A few of my favorites
Because He Lives (probably my favorite)
Amazing Grace
When The Role is Called Up Yonder
How Great Thou Art
Victory in Jesus

Man, we're very much alike in this aspect of life. Those are all songs on my favorites list. I would imagine most people my age probably go for the more contemporary music..and that's fine. I just prefer the older songs since I was raised on them. When the Roll is Called up Yonder is my all time favorite.
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#47
I love old codgers

Old codgers need love. Thank you.

OkieScot
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#48
I think you are a classic, Okie, not an old codger. Wink
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#49
I'm more in favor with the latest hits. "I can only imagine" is pretty good.
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#50
The Bible jsut says to "make a joyful noise".
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